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Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
562
   |
Posted - 2012.11.20 02:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
YO CCP FIX MOON GOO*
*Technetium**
**Goons***
*** **** Goons |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
563
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 03:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Damn. I see you're right back to being an ass-hole.
You say that as if the so-stupid-its-probably-a-troll OP deserved anything less. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
569
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 16:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
IT'S ALL ABOUT NULLSEC THOUGH*
* nobody in highsec ever uses POS, PI, does T2 production, or will ever use the CREST API system. Ever. Totally just nullsec stuff, right Frying ******* Doom? |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
570
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 21:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Is the current moon goo mechanic, causing massive conflict in 0.0?
It has when tech is at stake. That's unfortunately one of the problems, outside of tech there's not much worth fighting for. Of course, the only-one-timer-matters nature of sov war and the general **** state of sov 0.0 in general means those battles never stay massive for long, either, but that's a whole other issue (and one far larger and more important than moon goo, as far as sov 0.0 goes anyway). |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
571
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 22:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Your problem is that you didn't stop as soon as "I don't know much about nullsec" came into your mind. You don't, and your ideas reek of it.
If you want more conflict, you need to make sov MORE valuable, not less valuable. Right now, it's teetering on the brink of "who cares?", especially in regions that don't have tech (i.e. everything not in the North). Plenty of alliances keep it as a matter of principle, but when the chips go down and it's being invaded, that's when the real question of "is this worth trying to save?" comes up, and unfortunately, way more often than not the answer is "no".
You want battles with high stakes? Make null not suck. That's why region invasions end up resolved quickly, they're unfun and they're in defense of something that isn't really benefiting you at the end of the day. If regions had value all within at least ballpark ranges of each other, things become a lot more interesting - there's actual incentive to invade and take a region, and actual incentive to defend it. Right now, you have to hope that an enemy wants to keep their region on principle, and that's just not reliable enough.
How do you make sov not suck? There's two parts to that:
First, make the space worth living in. Farms & Fields is probably the best principle to go on here - make an alliance's livelihood come from its members. The extra nice part about this is that the principle can be applied evenly to all the regions in the game, meaning everyone can have value rather than just those fortunate enough to have won the moon mineral lottery.
Second, make the sov system not be the complete and utter **** pile it is now. I mentioned the one timer before - that's probably the biggest problem. It's timers that are sequential, and the times of them are fixed (with a few hours random variation), which means there's little to no chance of error. Even the old POS system at least had the possibility of someone ******* up a stront timer or two (especially if they had a bunch to do, stress etc), so there was some element of randomness or chance or what have you. With this system, there's no variance - you time it for when you can defend it best, and hope when the last timer comes your blob is bigger than their blob. That's not fun at all.
Neither of these are easy changes to make, but they'll actually have positive effects, unlike whatever kind of half-baked stupid "JUST FIX MOON GOO DEPLETE RESOURCES REMOVE LOCAL DERRRRRP" nonsense is being spewed on the forums this week. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
571
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 22:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I admit that I don't know much about the nullsec but I also think you misunderstood the idea I was throwing out.
I wasn't saying null sec should be worth less. I was saying the value of the space should fluctuate so that there is always an incentive to take over new space as opposed to just sit on the same space.
I am not suggesting it should be worth more or less on the whole. That is beside my point.
What I'm telling you is that a fluctuation will make it worth less on the whole. Simple as.
Cearain wrote:I am not sure the 2 changes you suggest will bring about the huge dramatic battles of old, but maybe you don't want that. Sov null sec isn't my game. Different people like different things and so if you want "farms and fields" and think adjusting timers will make null sec great, ok.
No need to get angry.
If sov null isn't your game, maybe you should leave the finer points to those of us who count sov null as our "game"? Just a thought!
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Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
575
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 01:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Fluctuations can go up or down. If 1/5 of null sec all of a sudden had a 20x increase in value and the rest stayed the same then null sec as a whole would be worth more.
Sigh. I know what a fluctuation is. What I'm saying is the very existance of fluctuations will make nullsec a less desirable place to be. Given it's not exactly a great place to live as it is, that's a Bad Thing.
Cearain wrote:Maybe you should calm down. I'm just throwing some ideas out there. There is no need to get so defensive.
Your ideas are objectively terrible and it's because, as you said, you don't know much about nullsec. That's a pretty good reason to stop throwing your bad ideas out there. Again, just a thought! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
575
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 04:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Here is another thought.
When normal people really are more knowledgable about a subject they tend to just briefly explain the problems with a novice's idea.
But when people are insecure in their knowledge and can't do that, they tend to lash out and just say things like "thats a terrible idea" and use fallacies like arguing against an idea because of where it comes from, instead of addressing it's merits.
I did address the (complete lack of) merits of your idea. You not liking my conclusion is not really all that important to me, though!
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Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
575
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 05:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:So remove any need of Null for the industry of Hi-sec, thereby collapsing all the hi-sec markets in one foul swoop.
You think Null is dead now, this will at least make Hi-sec on par I suppose, they will both be deserted.
How would null being completely self-sufficient would make null deserted?
Also highsec wouldn't completely die - it'd still be the prime place to get anything that has regional constraints - salvage, moon products, T3 anything, booster components, anything and everything faction (4 empire factions, pirate, deadspace), Ice, etc. That's still plenty of reason for highsec to exist even if all T1 production moved to null.
This is also all worst-case-scenario for highsec stuff. What's more likely is that increased industrial capacity gives nullsec a huge boost to self-sufficiency, but I have my doubts that it'd eliminate importation entirely - I just don't see enough people caring about mining to completely fill the gap, especially for alliances that have full-fledged supercap production going. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
575
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 06:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Highends crashed because the highend market has far less demand than lowends. It wasn't some incredible unprecedented mass of nullsec miners that crashed the price, it was the low demand combined with the big advances in sheer yield miners can bring in (fully t2 fit barges w/ maxed rorqual bonuses) and a bit of a "gold rush" mentality (mining was temporarily supposed to be the next big thing for isk/hr). Lowend prices, on the other hand, went up as actual player miners were unable to meet the full demand created by the removal of drone alloys and meta 0 drops in missions (compared to highends, which not only met but exceeded the demand created by the removal of said items).
Either way, it's pretty much impossible to predict the effects until CCP actually says what they're going to do (if anything). Doomsaying for the sake of it is just dumb as can be. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
575
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 14:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Do you mean where you argue that increasing the value of parts will make the whole less valuable?
Fluctuations generally come with a decrease as well. Any decrease at all will make null less desirable.
If you're talking a system where it just stays at the baseline and rises occasionally, that won't make it objectively worse, but it won't lead to actual conquest. This is another one of those "you don't know null very well" things, but even just the act of moving from one region to another is a royal pain in the ass, and that's to say nothing of taking a region from someone who may not want to leave. Nobody's going to do that for what would be a temporary boost in objective worth. What you'd see more than anything is the same large blocs staying put and waiting for their own region's upwards fluctuation.
I know you've got ideas and you want to share them, but your lack of how things work in sov null is really hamstringing you before you even start. You'd really be far better off putting your effort into focusing on improving whatever area of the game it is that you DO take part in, and know about, etc etc all that good stuff. |
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